SHARIA LAW AND THE PUNISHMENTS IN ISLAM
Posted on January 23rd, 2013

By A. Abdul Aziz

ƒÆ’-¡  The world today presents a horrific scenario of crime, violence, killing and a determined attempt to destroy the very pillars of social order which sustain peace, tolerance, harmony and human dignity. The lives of millions around the world have been ruined and they are going through an unbearable syndrome of traumatic suffering and ruthless devastation. The evil deployment of modern technology has given rise to a global institution of a criminal order which is the most critical challenge of the world today. The world is dearly searching for ways to combat, control and check the raging storm of crime, and that makes it all the more pertinent to present this subject, the Philosophy of Punishments in Islam.

We see in the Holy QurƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢an:-

ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ…-These are the limits set by Allah, so approach them not. Thus, does Allah make His commandments clear to men so that they may become secure against evil.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ (2:188)

ƒÆ’-¡ According to Muslim perception, Islam is not only a religion but also a civilization and social order based upon revealed principles. Islam stands out distinctly among the religions of the world in that its punishment and retribution laws are applied under exclusive rules and regulations, dealing with matters related to obligations to Allah and obligations to human kind. Under no circumstances has man the right to punish anyone for non-compliance with the obligations to Allah. So as a result of this distinction, Islam totally liberated manƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s obligations to worship from human intervention and interference.

God Almighty considers to be His right to punish as He so wishes the offenders who associate something with Him, apostasy, blasphemy, opposing Him and His Messenger, maligning Him and His Messenger and obstructing His Messenger in his prayer and in his mission. Because of the severity and perfidy of these offences, God Almighty does not transfer the right of dispensing justice to such offenders to anyone ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬”…” not even to His most beloved of Prophets. Instead, He tells the Holy Prophet, ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”forgive them and turn away from themƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢.

It is because God Almighty considers the offences to be so grave that no punishment in this world can do justice to the severity of the offences. God Almighty has prepared an abasing punishment for such people in the Hereafter as God Almighty says in the Holy

Quran:

ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ…-On the Day of Resurrection, He will disgrace them; they will enter the gates of Hell to abide therein. Evil, indeed is the abode of the proud.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ (16:28,30)

The other major rationale for punishment is denunciation. Under the denunciation theory, punishment should be an expression of societal condemnation. For our guidance, Allah Almighty has revealed in the Holy Quran a complete code of life ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬”…” a law to govern all dimensions of human life. This in Islam is known as ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”ShariaƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢.

For the sources of ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”ShariaƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”, we then have the Holy Quran, which is the very word of God. Supplementary to it, we have Hadith, which are traditions of the Holy Prophet of Islam ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬”…” the records of his actions and his sayings, from which we must derive help in arriving at legal decisions. If, in the unlikely event, there is nothing either in the Holy Quran or in the Hadith to answer the particular question before us, we have to follow the dictates of reason in accordance with certain definitive principles.

In Islamic law, offences are divided into two major groups: Firstly, crimes for which ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”HaddƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ (Hadd ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬”…” an Arabic word that means the limit set by God) punishments ordained by God are given. Secondly, other crimes such as homicide, assault and damage to property etcetera, punishments for which include retaliation, expiation and disciplinary action. However, Islam also provides guidelines on how to determine criminal liability.

For example, all acts are judged by their motives and intentions. (Bukhari). The Holy Quran uses the word ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”kasabƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ for commission of crime, which implies a deliberate effort. If there is no intention to violate or exceed the limits then there is no criminal liability and the act is pardonable. Any act carried out in ignorance and without adequate knowledge deserves pardon.

God Almighty says in The Holy Quran:

ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ…-Verily, Allah accepts the repentance of only those who do evil in ignorance and then repent soon after. These are they to whom Allah turns with mercy; and Allah is All- Knowing, Wise.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ (4 :18) Hadrat Ayesha (ra) narrates that the Holy Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: Try as far as possible to save a Muslim from punishment. If there can be a way to save him, then think of settling the matter. For the Imam to make a mistake in forgiving and acquitting is better than making a mistake in giving punishment (Tirmidhi Abwab AlHudood).

Hadrat Ibn Abbas (ra) narrates that the Holy Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: stop the enforcement of ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”hudoodƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ (limits) because of doubts. That is, do not make haste in issuing a ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”haddƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ punishment to anyone. Rather, if there is a possibility of doubt, make it a base for pardon. That makes it abundantly clear that punishments in Islam are not for revenge, but reformation, and must not exceed the extent of the offence.

Today, in the world, the ruin of families on a large scale, the weakening of family connections, and the growing lack of loyalty and trust in relationships; the growing pandemic of divorces and the sense of being rejected; moreover the spread of horrific venereal diseases such as AIDS, can be blamed on this one offence of adultery.

Islam regards adultery as one of the most heinous of all social crimes and looks upon chastity of a man or a woman as one of his or her most precious possessions. For the establishment of the kingdom of God, Islam strongly condemns this most deadly of all social crimes which if not checked and suppressed, can bring about total disintegration and destruction of society. The Holy Quran seeks to close all those avenues through which this evil can find its way among a people and severely punishes the act of adultery and condemns the guilty parties as social pariahs. As far as the nature of punishment is concerned the Holy Quran says: ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”The adulteress and the adulterer (or the fornicatoress and the fornicator), flog each one of them with a hundred stripes.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ (24:3)

Flogging and not stoning to death is therefore the punishment prescribed by Islam for adultery or fornication. Nowhere in the Holy Quran has stoning to death been laid down as punishment of adultery and for that matter for any other crime, however serious. The misconception seems to be due to a few cases recorded in the hadith (sayings of Holy Prophet) when married persons guilty of adultery were stoned to death by the order of the

Holy Prophet. One of these few cases was that of a Jew and a Jewess who were stoned to death in accordance with the Mosaic law. (Bukhari). It was invariably the Holy ProphetƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s (peace be upon him) practice that he abided by the law of the Torah in deciding cases until a new Commandment was revealed to him. It is mentioned in St. John Chapter 8, V:4-5 of the Bible and I quote: ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stonedƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢.

The misconception has persisted among certain schools of Muslim religious thought that flogging is punishment for unmarried persons only and that punishment for married adulterer and adulteress is stoning to death. In principle and sensibly in accordance with this directive, Jesus (Peace be upon him) must be followed faithfully to this day. It is however, another matter that it is not adhered to. In the light of this explanation, we witness an interesting scenario in this age, where the Jewish and Christian States, against their religious teachings, do not stone the adulterers to death, but some Muslim States in contrast to the teaching of the Holy Quran, impose the punishment of stoning to death for adultery.

The other social evil, second to adultery in heinousness, which eats into the vitals of human society, is the slandering of innocent people. Islam also views with extreme disfavour this social evil which has become so common in the so-called civilized modern society, and severely punishes the accusers. God Almighty says: ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”And those who calumniate chaste women but bring not four witnesses ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬”…” flog them with eighty stripes and never admit their evidence thereafter, and it is they that are transgressors.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ (24:5) Here, the Holy Quran mentions three forms of punishment in an ascending order which are to be meted out to a slanderer.

Firstly, the physical punishment of scourging. Then, disgrace of being branded as a perjurer and a liar which invalidates his or her evidence, and the spiritual stigma of being adjudged as a transgressor. In case the accuser cannot produce the necessary evidence in support of his charge, the charge would be considered as false and the accuser would render himself liable to the prescribed punishment. Whatever the facts of the case, the woman with whom adultery is alleged to have been committed will be held innocent as long as the required evidence is not produced. The law, in fact, is intended to suppress with a strong hand the offence of slandering and scandal-mongering. The commandment contained in the Holy Quran covers both men and women without any distinction.

The third offence set out in the Holy Quran is murder. Allah says;

ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”O ye who believe, equittable retaliation in the matter of the slain is prescribed for you.The free man for the free man, and the slave for the slave and the female for the female. But if one is granted any remission by oneƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s brother, then pursuing the matter for the realization of the blood money shall be done with fairness and the murderer shall pay him the blood money in a handsome manner. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy and whoso transgresses thereafter, for him there shall be a grievous punishment.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢

(2:179).

The verse makes no distinction between different classes of persons in connection with the law of retaliation. The punishment applies to all offenders who might be guilty of murder, no matter of what rank or station in life or of what religion. Any person, irrespective of his cast or creed and irrespective of his station, must be put to death for the murder of any other person unless pardoned by the relatives of the victim and unless the pardon has the sanction of the authorities.

This verse comprises a very important principle of civil law, that is, equality of man and necessity of awarding proportionate punishment to all offenders without distinction. Unless an offender is forgiven by the relatives of his victim under circumstances that are expected to lead to improvement and betterment of conditions, punishment for the slain as prescribed is obligatory. The authorities responsible for law and order are bound to punish the offender according to the requirements of law, having no right to pardon him of their own accord. On the other hand, the heirs of the murdered person are not entitled to take the law into their own hands and inflict the punishment on the guilty person themselves.

So Islam simultaneously retains the punishment of death for murder but in some cases without depriving anyone of their right an exceptional form of punishment has also been created. This exceptional form is also based on profound wisdom; It is possible that the heirs of the murdered victim may be entirely dependant upon the person murdered for their subsistence. In such a situation capital punishment cannot fulfil a practical basic need of the familyƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s welfare. Thus, for making provision of claiming ransom in lieu of capital punishment, Islam offers a practical choice to the grieved family. Basically, Islam structures a society which is founded on the spirit of true fraternity where the blood of a Muslim is unlawful upon another Muslim. What a beautiful teaching imbued with the love of Allah and humanity condoning purity of heart and mind and emphasising the fact that in Islam punishment is a forceful positive power of rectification and reformation for the sustenance of a pure God loving society.

The fourth offence that is mentioned is stealing. The punishment prescribed for theft may again to some appear to be too severe. However, as I just mentioned, punishment if it is to be deterrent and effect change, has to be exemplary. God Almighty says in the Holy Quran: ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ…-And as for the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands in retribution of their offence as an exemplary punishment from Allah. And Allah is Mighty, Wise.ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ (5 :39) It is better to be severe to one and save a thousand than to be indulgent to all and ruin many. He certainly is a good surgeon who does not hesitate to amputate a rotten limb to save the whole body.

However, to understand the philosophy of this punishment, it would be helpful to comprehend the background of the society which Islam envisages to establish. A knowledge of the financial guarantee which an Islamic economic system provides to every citizen of the country is also necessary. As far as the structure of society is concerned, Islam builds it on simple living, truth, righteousness and abstinence from absurdities of life and senseless customs. Islam establishes a society which is pure of such frolics and has the least causes which could be held responsible to tempt someone to steal. These are the aspects of the society which irrespective of religion or belief are to be observed by every subject of an Islamic State. As far as Muslims are concerned, there is emphasis on worship and purity of heart and sight, and the moral teaching provides details regarding obligations to humans. In the light of all that, if the residents of a country are truly Muslims, the thought of stealing should be unimaginable. However, it is sad that in the real situation, such a scenario is difficult to present.

The Muslim States have sadly become the hubs and breeding grounds of evil crime, fraud and falsehood, leave alone theft and robbery. In these circumstances, there can be no better punishment than the one imposed by Islam, that is, the punishment of cutting the hands. Such a punishment becomes a warning indicator and a deterrent for others. Moreover, this punishment has a very powerful effective force for the prevention of stealing.

For the punishment of cutting the hands of a thief, Islam has also laid down limits on conditions such as that the stolen goods should not be edible on which the sustenance of life depends or pilfering or lifting. For such offences some other form of befitting punishment is meted out.

The philosophy of punishments in Islam indicates that Islam provides punishment only as a last resort and the purpose behind is reform brought about through a blending of human values and justice tempered with mercy. Encouraging forgiveness where it is likely to reform and improve things, providing severe punishment where there is clear disregard and exceeding the limit of law.

Finally, I repeat, as Holy Prophet of Islam said:ƒÆ’-¡  all acts are judged by their motives and intentions. (Bukhari). If there is no intention to violate or exceed the limits then there is no criminal liability and the act is pardonable. Any act carried out in ignorance and without adequate knowledge deserves pardon.

It is my prayers for the executed Rizana Nafeek ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬”…” May her soul rest in peace.

18 Responses to “SHARIA LAW AND THE PUNISHMENTS IN ISLAM”

  1. LankaLover Says:

    I have few questions,

    1. Why the Muslim countries lets say Saudi Arabia does not allow people of other faiths to practice their religions freely? They confiscate even a printed matter with Lord Buddha’s image at the Airport.

    2. Why ancient Buddhist sites in Muslim countries are being destroyed saying it is against the Islam?

    3. Why Islam preach that it should be the right religion that everyone should follow, and the non-followers need to be destroyed?

  2. Lorenzo Says:

    The solution to violence is NOT BARBARIANISM!

    Sharia is WORSE than ALL violence in the world COMBINED.

    No need to jump into the fire from the frying pan!!

    Actually MOST violence in the world is caused by Muslims. MOST killings around the world are done by Muslims. Please read thereligionofpeace for FACTS.

    DOWN WITH SHARIA!

  3. Voice123 Says:

    Abdul Aziz, please read John 8 properly. It is teaching about compassion and is the opposite of what your kind of Sharia law is doing.

    John 8:3-

    [3] The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group [4] and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. [5] In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” [6] They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

    But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. [7] When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” [8] Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

    [9] At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. [10] Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

    [11] “No one, sir,” she said.

    “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”

  4. Lorenzo Says:

    Quoting out of context!

    Typical.

    Anyway Jews don’t stone people to death. Only Arabs do.

    If their law is applied, all their women who commit adultry by marrying a married man must be given the same punishment. Marrying or having intimacy with a married man is prostitution. Unfortunately most Muslim women commit this sin where Muslim men have more than one wife.

  5. Nesta Says:

    @Lankalover

    Please don’t see Saudi Arabia as true Islamic country. Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion. It also guarantees the religious freedom. Blame Saudi Arabia and similar Muslim countries. Writer clearly said – Saudi Arabia’s barbaric act on Rizana Nafeek is un-Islamic.

  6. Ariya Says:

    Aziz, isn’t it strange that your “holy land” is being occupied by the Saud family? And that this family is running islam the way they want it? Isn’t your “holy book” a plagiat of few Jewish “holy” books? Wasn’t your prophet’s “revelations” made to satisfy his yearning for wealth and sex?

  7. Lorenzo Says:

    “Writer clearly said – Saudi Arabia’s barbaric act on Rizana Nafeek is un-Islamic.”

    No where he said that!!

    FYI, the beheading of RN was done according to Sharia!!

    Saudi’s national law is Sharia law!!! THAT IS WHY it is barbaric.

    Before the 5 century AD, Saudi was a better country than now.

    Not only Saudi, Libya was also same. Gadafi read his GREEN BOOK which was Koran’s selected verses.

    Why the Taliban had PERFECT Sharia law in Afghanistan until 2001!!!

    The fault is NOT saudi or Taliban, the problem is Sharia.

  8. Nesta Says:

    @Lorenzo

    Finally, I repeat, as Holy Prophet of Islam said: all acts are judged by their motives and intentions. (Bukhari). If there is no intention to violate or exceed the limits then there is no criminal liability and the act is pardonable. Any act carried out in ignorance and without adequate knowledge deserves pardon.

    It is my prayers for the executed Rizana Nafeek – May her soul rest in peace.

    Can’t you infer from this – writer condemns the execution of RN

  9. Lorenzo Says:

    Sorry Nesta, it does NOT infer condemning Saudi/Sharia barbarianism.

    Even the barbarians who killed RN wished her rest in peace and gave some money to her parents. They refused it!!

    If you openly condemn it they will issue a FATWA on you Aziz. If they know you are Ahamadiya sect, it will be a DOUBLE FATWA.

    Barbarians can thrive because good people keep quiet. The problem is Sharia not Arabs.

  10. Leela Says:

    All theistic religions believe in Abraham’s ‘One God’. Although Muhammad says he is One God’s last prophet and Koran is his last scripture, he had accepted that ‘One God’ had earlier prophets and scriptures. I need not quote but there are many verses in the Koran that degrade Jews and Christians as Kafirs and command Muslims to harass and kill them.

    Now, if Islam is a philosophy as Mr Aziz says, Muslims should ponder why the same angel of ‘One God’ that read earlier prophets Torah, read new prophet Koran to kill Jews and Christians. Please explain.

    Can the benevolent One God who is said to have created the first man ask one descendent to kill another because he follows his earlier prophet and scriptures? How could Muslim become Christian an apostasy? This is madness.

    Jews, Christians and Muslims condemn everyone other than their own type to hell. Every one of them says they alone would go to heaven as well. Is not that argument alone is good enough to bring down the whole pack of cards? I bet you won’t answer.
    Leela

  11. Lorenzo Says:

    A PSC has been appointed to look in to Islamic and other FUNDAMENTALISM and EXTREMISM.

    TIMELY!!!

  12. Lorenzo Says:

    Leela,

    “Jews, Christians and Muslims condemn everyone other than their own type to hell.”

    Jews don’t do that.
    Christians don’t do that.

    There are exceptions.

    Look at Israel. 25% are Muslims!! Look at “Palestine” 100% Muslim GHETTOS ONLY!!!

    I don’t blame Allah for ANY of the nonsense Muslims do. Allah is true god. But Muslims are misled by a violent, polygamist, pedophile man with Satanic Verses. Muslims worship this man, not Allah. Look at the direction they turn to worship at mosques. Towards Mecca! Allah is NOT in Mecca. He is everywhere. Mecca is special ONLY for Mohammed. Allah will NOT forgive these violent people who KILL BY HIS NAME.

    So please respect Allah which means God who is the same god you may believe in. It is just a different name.

  13. Voice123 Says:

    “Allah is true god. But Muslims are misled by a violent, polygamist, pedophile man with Satanic Verses. Muslims worship this man, not Allah.”

    - LOL! Lorenzo, be careful they will FATWA you.

    “Jews, Christians and Muslims condemn everyone other than their own type to hell. Every one of them says they alone would go to heaven as well. Is not that argument alone is good enough to bring down the whole pack of cards?”

    - Leela, before you tar all these religions with the same brush, have you read the Gospels of the Christian New Testament? (The actual teachings of Christ himself). It is starkly different to the Q’ran or the Torah or even the Christian Old Testament as regards universal love, forgivenss, compassion etc. In some ways it resonates with Buddhism. There is a theory that Christ studied and was influenced by Buddhism.

  14. Leela Says:

    Thank you very much for your response. First, I must say, this is only a dialogue and therefore please do not get offended for my defending what I wrote earlier.

    Now, Hebrew jealously guarded their ‘One God’. How? Joshua 23:10 says as God said to Hebrews; “He is the Lord God that fighteth for you.” And, true to that word, EX 12:30 explained how the Lord killed all the first-born babies of Egypt such a way that there was not a house where at least one dead. Also, JER 13:14 says; “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.” Mind you, Amalek are not Arabs.

    Then, One God fought for Jews and killed other races. It is obvious that those that were killed goes to One God’s hell not heaven. But, I accept your suggestion that Jews had not condemned Christians and Muslims or any of their sects by name. That was because none of them were there at the time. Had they been there, one can conclude One God would have killed Christians and Muslims for Hebrew and condemned them to hell. One need not go further to prove this than to ponder why rabbis handed over Jesus to Pilate. If Rabbais thought Jesus is God and would go to One God’s heaven would they get Romans to crucify him? No.

    When questioned and ponder why infamous battles called Crusades and torture sentencing called inquisitions have taken place, it is obvious that each Christian sect has hells for all others including their own sects. Cambridge scholar Edward Burman paints a terrifying but compelling picture of ‘Inquisition’. Albigensian heresies in 1232 with Christians killing Christians, hundreds of thousands of people were killed because their Christianity did not agree with official dogma. In 1252, Pope Innocent IV had decreed that all secular rulers must arrest and execute all non-Catholic Christians.

    For one thing though I agree with you that majority of Jews and Christians by far have removed from those shackles and mellowed down from their past attitudes and have quietly shed nasty verses of their Bibles whereas Muslims are adamantly clinging on to every cruel and wicked verses in the Koran.
    Leela

  15. Leela Says:

    My earlier reply is for Lorenzo.

    Voice123,
    I do not tar any religion with made-up stories. I only write what I read from scholarly source. It is definitely not the way many write about Muhammad here. But I am not a history scholar. For several years though, my focal point has been to read bygone and edgy issues of established religions. Therefore I welcome both praise and criticism to improve my knowledge.

    I am contemplating to write a book under the title ‘Are all religion the same’ because I do not contribute to the opinion that Christianity resonates with Buddhism or Jesus is like Buddha.

    Matthew 19:29 and Mark 10:29 says as Jesus said: “And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters; or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name sake, shall receive a hundred fold, and shall inherit everlasting life.” And (Luke 14:26) says as Jesus said; “If any man come to me and hate not his father, his mother, his wife, his children, his brethren, his sisters, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” If Christ studied and was influenced by Buddhism as you say then definitely he wouldn’t have said so. Then again, there is a question whether there had been a historical Jesus of the New Testament.
    Leela

  16. Lorenzo Says:

    Leela,

    No offence taken or intended.

    You have missed the CONTEXT. Jews were turned to slaves by Egyptian Pharos. They had to escape. But the Egyptians won’t allow them to. So a HUMANITARIAN OPERATION had to be performed on them. They didn’t have jets and MBRLs those days. So they used methods of war of attrition at that time. BUT that violence ENDED once the Jews were safely away from harm!

    Today they DON’T go killing by the name of g~d unlike Muslims.

    But EVERY country kills for national security which is perfectly acceptable.

  17. Voice123 Says:

    Leela, it would be ludicrous to say that the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha are identical! They are not. They are from different eras and different societies. In my previous post I was contrasting the Old Testament or Moses view of god as a god of ethnic preference, revenge, vengeance and cruel punishments with those of Jesus who teaches that god is love.

    “And (Luke 14:26) says as Jesus said; “If any man come to me and hate not his father, his mother, his wife, his children, his brethren, his sisters, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

    - Interesting that you quote this passage out of all of them to attempt to disprove any similarity! These are passages that have been translated from ancient Greek into old English by medeival scribes. The word “hate” in this context is said to refer to detachment from worldly desires. One who “hates” something doesnt necessarily feel anger towards it or wish destruction upon it, in this context.

    Consider what did the Buddha taught about detachment. You’re the expert on Buddhism. Tell me whether anything below is inaccurate?

    King Suddhodhana was concerned that his son, a prince may become a recluse and turn away from the world if he was left to himself. However the Buddha felt that with married life, a man was bound by various attachments in worldly life. The Buddha felt that various human relationships, friends, family, brothers, sisters, etc are the cause of sorrow in the world? He said that all these worldy things are momentary and perishable.

    The Buddha felt intensely unhappy that his parents and others combined to commit him to the bondage of married life. So one day, at midnight, Buddha left the palace, giving up his wife and son, Rahul. He resolved to find out something which transcends all worldly relationships and pleasures. He abandoned everything out of the conviction. He is supposed to have said:

    “There is no mother or father, no kinsman or friend, no home or wealth. Awaken yourself!”

    And

    “Happiness is not to be found in any of the things of the world. Everything is fleeting. Man is wasting his life in the pursuit of petty ephemeral pleasures. Nirvana is the only truth. To turn the mind towards that which is permanent is “Nirvana”.

    - Leela, they sound very similar to me!

    Good luck with your book and your research.

  18. Voice123 Says:

    Leela said to Lorenzo:

    “For one thing though I agree with you that majority of Jews and Christians by far have removed from those shackles and mellowed down from their past attitudes and have quietly shed nasty verses of their Bibles whereas Muslims are adamantly clinging on to every cruel and wicked verses in the Koran.”

    - Leela, not quite true. Neither the Christians nor the Jews have toned down any wicked verses. However the Jews are largely a prosperous middle/millionaire class people making their living and dependent mostly on the West. Most of them are too comfortable and educated to start flogging and stoning each other for things like having a glass of wine and chatting to an unmarried person of the opposite sex!! So they interpret the Torah in a benign way. As for the Christians, it is more complex. They have the New Testament teachings of Jesus that god is love and forgiveness, to counter the wicked verses of the Old Testament. So for the more sensible and respectable Christians, the New Testament always trumps the Old (except for Christian Zionists based in the States, who believe in this angry warlike vengeful racist god and also some terrorist groups in Africa like the Lords Resistance Army of Uganda. I dont know what the theology of the LTTE’s Father Emmanuel is but they also seem to believe that god favours some ethnic groups over others – all of these views are clearly repudiated by the New Testament). In Islam, BY CONTRAST, the Wahabists and extremists use the harsh, murderous, cruel, genocidal and inhumane concept of god to trump any idea that Allah is merciful. They dont hesitate to kill anyone who disagrees with them.

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