Analysis and application of Bahiya Sutra
Posted on March 23rd, 2011

Sunil VijayapalaƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ Australia

One of the greatest challenges for a Buddhist who embarks on the journey to Nibbana is the assumption of a Being as a ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”processƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ rather than a living entity.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  The virtuous Bahiya in his short encounter with Thathagata, had the wisdom to comprehend this unique concept and enter Nibbana prior to his demise caused by a cowƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s mauling.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Bahiya had to cover a long distance walking to meet Buddha and when he finally did Buddha was on his alms round.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Buddha twice turned down BahiyaƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s request to expose the Dhamma but finally agreed and uttered few lines which were grasped by the wise Bahiya.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ 

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ The short discourse goes as follows;

“Then, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress.”

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ Here the emphasis is on Seeing, Hearing, Sensing (putting together Smelling, Tasting and sensing through body) and Thinking as processes with no reference to a Being who sees, hears etc..ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Based on this the mere attribute of ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”lifeƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ does not elevate an entity to the status of a Self or a Being. The Sutra points to a total absence of a Being performing the functions of Seeing, Hearing Sensing or Thinking rather it points to a continuous flux of Uncontrolled processes, ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”elements in motionƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢, during the course of an existence of a Human, Deva or Animal etc..ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  As I observed in my article on Dismantling Self we lack control over complex processes occurring inside our bodies, similarly these external processes go on without the intervention of a Self.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Whenever there is Contact, that is coming together of the Internal Base (such as eye, ear etc.) the External Base (such as visible object, sound etc.) giving rise to relevant Consciousness(eye consciousness, ear consciousness etc.) the processes of Seeing, Hearing etc. will go on and suffering begins.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Buddha ends the sutra with the statement ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”š‚¦. This, just this, is end of sufferingƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ referring to the five aggregates as the gamut of suffering exposed to the external world through the six doors, swallowing the baits constantly hooking us on to craving, the cause of suffering.

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ The semblance of a Control is observed only when Mindfulness takes hold of Uncontrolled activities and hence Thathagata stressed the importance of Continuous Mindfulness in day to day activities, a very challenging task indeed.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  We achieve this difficult undertaking as explained in Satipattana Suttra, through Right Mindfulness(Samma Sati) ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ of Body (kayanupassana), Feeling (vedananupassana), Citta (Cittanupassana) and lastly Mental Formations(Dhammanupassana). Complete relaxation of the physical body or stilling of breath body in the case of mindfulness of breathing is a pre-requisite for Happiness or Joy which leads to Absorption or Jhana.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Nimitta or the sign, a mental object created by the mind, will appear spontaneously at the most unexpected moment and contemplatives need to be patient, without expectation, as the mere appearance of the sign will bring utmost Joy.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  This sequence of events in the meditation process is fundamental to achieve perfect Jhana, purifying the mind in stages, with the elevation of consciousness to higher levels.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ 

We need to engage ourselves in analysis of Dhamma and do our own homework as depending on Poojakavroos will be unwise as they target people to acquire merit to head to heavens through the performances of meritorious rites and rituals such as Katina, Bodhi, Atavisi and myriads of other poojas performed at places of Buddhist worship, Sri Mahabodhi and Ruwanweli Seya and most temples right around Sri Lanka.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Wisdom of monks of the calibre of late Venerable Narada is a rarity nowadays and we need to give a new direction to our precious Dhamma, going back to basics and engage ourselves in discussion and be fecund Buddhists and practice both Serenity meditation (Samatha Bhavana) and Insight Meditation (Vipassana Bhavana) keeping a good balance of both as instructed by Thathagata.

However I do not pretend to understand the following statements in the brief exposition ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”š‚¦..When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the twoƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ – what was meant here?ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  In some instances ThathagataƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s briefs need oneƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s wit to decipher and Buddha intentionally did this to make people think.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  BahiyaƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s exceptional wisdom did help him to understand every word of Thathagata and even the monks who accompanied Buddha made no request for further clarification later as they too would have understood the statement although lacked necessary conditions to enter Nibbana.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  This sutra is unique in some other respects too as Thathagata himself instructing the monks to build a memorial cremating BahiyaƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s body and ThathagataƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s unparalleled power to trace the final destination of Bahiya, i.e. Nibbana.

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ A word of caution on translations of Pali text by especially westerners needs to be mentioned here.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Christians who have embraced Buddhism in some instances have mistranslated Nibbana as Gnosis, a concept held by Gnostics in the past.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Nibbana has no equivalent meaning in English as itƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s the only unconditioned element known to Enlightened ones and any attempt at translation would be an utterly foolish exercise. ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ Some western monks have begun to contradict each otherƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢s translations of some Pali terms and phrases, which is a serious development we easterners should be aware of.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Some instances Commentaries by others, in this case both easterners and westerners, past and present, which are in fact interpretations of commentators, of the word of Buddha, mislead people rather than clarifying the precise meaning Buddha intended to convey, engaging in pedantic dialogues.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  We often encounter errors in instances of translation to English the terms Mano, Citta, Naame.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Mano refers to Mind, Citta essentially refers to Consciousness(although I must say often the word is used for mind, which in my opinion is ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ incorrect) and Naame refers to Feeling, Perception and Mental Formations.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  One sutra which clearly differentiates the terms Mano and Citta is Girimananda Sutta.

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ To break away from Dependent Origination which is the untruth and follow the middle way, the Noble 8 Fold path which is the truth, the key is to think oneself as a consolidated process rather than as a Being.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  To achieve this, Right Mindfulness plays a major role so that all uncontrolled processes come under some sought of ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…”supervisionƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢-¾‚¢ by the developing mind.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  A practical stage at which Dependant Origination can be curtailed is at the stage of Feeling where one refrains from gladdening at the arising of a Pleasant feeling or refrains from saddening at the arising of an Unpleasant feeling and observing these phenomena with Equanimity, so that no Craving arises, breaking the link between Feeling and Craving in the chain of Dependent Origination or Patichcha Sammupadaya.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Even a neutral Feeling arising due to Delusion of a Self need to be avoided as arahant Dammadina instructed Visakha in the following statement ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ”¹…””Ignorance lies on the other side of neither-pleasant-nor-painful feeling.”

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ Serenity Meditation(Samma Samadhi) purifies the mind and elevates consciousness levels and helps in analysis of mind and matter with clarity which is basically venturing into Insight meditation.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Delusion of a Self which is a component of Craving needs to be discarded initialy to enter the stream and become a Sotapane, which should be the minimum goal of a practicing Buddhist, irrespective whether he or she wears a yellow robe or not.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  Thathagata has been insulted and his dhamma has been distorted to the whims and fancies of the Poojakavaroos, who exploit masses and successfully derail their journey to Nibbana.ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚  However one paramount concept remains ƒÆ’‚¢ƒ¢-¡‚¬ƒ¢¢”š¬…” There is no Being who enters Nibbana but just a process or elements entering Nibbana, which in fact is the essence of this sutra, probably one of the greatest sutras Thathgata expounded.

ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ Sunil VijayapalaƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ 
ƒÆ’-¡ƒ”š‚ Australia

16 Responses to “Analysis and application of Bahiya Sutra”

  1. Ben_silva Says:

    We have another article promoting Nibbana one way or the other. There are over 6 billion humans on earth. Do we have a single piece of evidence of any one reaching Nibbana. Is it just an illusion or a man created object like heaven ?
    The reality is: every living species, including bacteria, viruses, Tamils, Muslims, Indians, Chinese, Westerners etc all compete for resources and compete to survive and win, except perhaps some Sinhala Buddhists that want to seek Nirbana and go extinct. This idea of Nirvana does not look attractive as everyone is competing for resources (except those seeking Nirvana) .
    What is evident is that wise Indians in their millions have dumped Nivana and are now well on their way to achieve success, survival and win in a highly competitive world rather than end up as losers and seek extinction. Ancient Buddhist societies, due to their passive nature, produced failed societies that could not defend themselves, and could correctly be described as failed societies, as they got wiped out or ended up as second class citizens. . Indians being wise, dumped the Nirvana idea in their millions, after the Nalanda debacle, as they realised, Buddhism could produce failed societies that cannot defend them selves. In the case of Bahiya, it is just one person seeking Nirvana and in comparison, millions of Indians have dumped the Nirvana idea and Buddhism itself. Buddhism, due to its passive nature produced failed societies, that could not defend themselves, not only at Nalanda. Other failed cases include countries in the silk route, including China and Tibet. Over 6 billion human beings on earth and not a single case of any one achieving Nirvana. What exactly is the purpose of this illusionary pointless goal that we have no evidence of.? It is indeed time to think fresh, without allowing the religion virus take control of your mind. In comparison to one Indian, Bahiya, who sought Nivana, after getting mauled by a cow, there are millions of Indians who dumped the Nirvana idea after getting mauled by Muslims.
    It would be far more useful if writers spend their time telling us how to survive rather than how to go extinct. We will automatically go extinct if we do not survive.

  2. Sunil Vijaya Says:

    Ben – I am confused. You say Buddism was wiped out by moghuls – your Nalanda story repeated over and over again and then you say the wise Indians dumped Buddhism. Which story is true?
    If you travel in India like myself and cover places like Haridwar, Rishikesh, Varnasi, Gangotri, Badrinath etc. you would see the intense of religious feeling among Indians on the Hindu faith. They are staunch Hindus.
    Buddhism was killed by both Brahmins and Moghuls, you need to read a lot more. And if you say Indians became wiser you have to thank both these groups. Buddhism is for the wise not for fools. It has nothing to do with becoming rich but becoming wiser and target the end of suffering. Now the so called rich countries are getting back a battering from nature through global warming thanks to so called Development and is this what you expect of development and becoming rich? The plunderers would look at saving jobs rather than saving the planet. Thanks to science and development we had CFCs in our refrigerators etc. and what did it eventually do to nature? You and I will be dead and gone by this time if not for some wise people who detected the ozone layer getting depleted and big holes forming in North and South poles. Do you want live like an animal or live like a human being with some form of enlightenment in mind, Nibbana or heaven or some goal, other than becoming rich?

    Who says Tibetans and Chinese dumped Buddhism? Where does your evidence come from? You must be in another world! they are as ardent Buddhists then and now but as I have always emphasised most including Sri Lankans have corrupted Buddhism and practice a Hindu type conducting poojas. If there is anything to dump it is – this rampant form of development destryoing the world and come down to a level of sustainable development. Something from Dhammapada comes to my mind – it goes something like this ‘ a fool who thinks he is foolish is wise to that extent but a fool who thinks he is wise is a fool indeed’ This wisdom thanks to Buddha who attained to Nibbana which you despise so much. And I do believe some countries where Buddhism prevail, Japan, China, Thailand are doing well. Its the lack of Management skills that some nations lack and thats why they stay poor even with ample resources – it has nothing to do with the virus of religion as you put it. Now for heavens sake don’t repeat your Nalanda story – its becoming so boring probably to most members of this forum.

  3. Fran Diaz Says:

    We agree with Sunil Vijaya that Lankan Buddhists lack Management skills, and we add also the fact that we need to use our knowledge of Science & Technology in a more practical way to ensure better living standards. This can be easily remedied by introducing practical Science to kids at an early age in all government schools, and Science based games & Science competitions in govt. schools will help. Likewise, we should teach Management skills at an early age to children through lessons & games. Once a child’s imagination is captured on these subjects, there is no stopping !

    The Questions we have about Life will never go away ! Even very young children ask questions about Life & Death. Addressing the way out of Suffering, as the Buddha did, is the most essential part of Life after Survival Skills are met. The Buddha addressed the importance of the Breath without which no human being can live. He spoke only the absolute Truth. His Teachings cannot and will not be discarded in favor of “Development”.

    We have to BALANCE our need for Survival Skills (Development) with our need to explore the Questions we have about Life and the Answers to those Questions.

  4. Ben_silva Says:

    Before the Nalanda debacle, India was a Buddhist country. After the Nalanda debacle, Buddhism never recovered in India. India is now generally a Hindu country which you yourself said, although the Indian state is declared to be secular. Clearly if Indians are now Hindus or secular and not Buddhists, then Indians have dumped Buddhism. China, once taken over by Communists in 1949, halted all religious activities. Tibet is now a part of China, and Buddhism is still practiced in Tibet., but Tibetians are under Chinese communist control. Communist party officials are not allowed to be Buddhist and there is strict monitoring of the activities in temples. I also have travelled in many parts of India. I also know many Chinese. The Chinese do not take any religion seriously, but treat money as God.
    The reason why we should not be passive and seek extinction is: the law of nature is survival of the fittest. We should aim for survival and not extinction. Further every passive ethnic group has been robbed or killed by more aggressive groups. The danger of seeking Nirvana is, whilst we seek Nirvana and remain passive everyone else will rob our assets, including our country and that is what has been happening for the past 2500 years. Ample evidence of that. If there are problems with science or any other field, the solution is not Nirvana, but address the problem in a logical manner. Seeking Nirvana is cowardly and shows fear of tackling problems head on.
    There are various maps available on the net , which shows that no Buddhism in India, in general. Also a fair amount of info on the net on various religions. A good article to read is religion mind virus.

    Insulting others is not my style. But let me kindly return a compliment. If you get the religion mind virus from your head, you may talk more sence.

  5. Ben_silva Says:

    Sunil says ‘Buddhism is for the wise not for fools.’ Why is that Buddhists in the countries in the Silk route such as Afghanistan, India, so on and Malaysia, Indonesia could not defend themselves ? Were they not wise enough to be able to defend themselves ? Even China, when it believed in Buddhism, could not defend itself from the British and had to give away Hong Kong..
    It would be far useful, if Sunil debate using points and evidence rather than hurling insults. Hurling insults shows that Sunil displays the conduct of some one seriously affected by the religion mind virus. Please read ‘ The mind virus called religion’ ref:
    Believers call non believers as fools as in most religions, when the reverse is true, as the believers have no evidence only belief.
    How about some evidence on Nirvana ?
    If misguided people stop misleading the Sinhalese to follow Nalanda Buddhists, then I do not have to repeat the Nalanda story.

  6. Fran Diaz Says:

    Ben : the problem in Lanka is not Buddhism. It is that,

    (1) We have been subjugated by Colonial Powers for some 500 yrs and the effects of this subjugation is still evident.

    (2) We have yet to catch up with new Survival Skills by turning more to Science & Technology and teaching children at an early age that S&T can be fun, and can be applied to daily living.

    (3) We have been doing too much ritual & chanting, and not enough of practical Buddhism which summarised is Dhana, Seela & Bhavana. We have to prepare for our demise too while preparing for Life. No lives eternally …

    (4) We in Lanka have already realised that though caught up in the crazy GDP economic idea, that when over done, it is counter productive to human happiness, as is the rampant Profit Motive.

  7. Ben_silva Says:

    Sunil, the main point I want to put cross is that Buddhism has lost its place in India, for what ever reason and Buddhism is not a major religion in India. This fact is well documented and it is accurate.As for Frans comments, a dscussion is required to avoid repeating the same mistakes. Unfortunately only a few bother to comment and even the few who bother, some merely hurl insults. Japanese Buddism may be the best. I do not mind any ritual a long as they do not attempt extinction or attempt to give up desires. There are so many versions of Buddhism that one persons true Buddhism may be some one elses rituals and vice versa.
    If Fran does some research, he will find that every passive, peaceful ethnic group has been robbed of their land or assets by more powerful groups. So ignoring defence may not help. Right now, the Indians are a serious threat, as thier populaion is growing out of control.

  8. Fran Diaz Says:

    Dear Ben,

    Has Lanka ignored Defence of her coastline ? What do you propose : that we go and get nuclear arms too ?

    Japan joined a so-called winning side, Germany, during WW II. Look where Japan is now. Bombed by the first atom bomb ever to be dropped (Japan did not start WW II, Germany did, but Europe’s Germany did not get the atom bomb ! do you get the picture ?).
    After that, Japan as a conquered nation, was bullied by the west into so-called Development on the western theme of development, accepting nuclear power for energy, and now a second nuclear catastrophe on a nuclear facility built by General Electric of USA. There were pictures of Japanese women in high heeled boots stepping over cracked cement tilted by the earthquake – it looked more like a picture from New York ! Generally, western style Sc&Tech is bringing in Climate Change at a huge level. When the Himalayan glaciers melt, it will be obvious …. we saw the flooding in Pakistan, did we
    not ? that was just a sample of things to come.

    No, we got to find our own solutions, going for Intermediate Technology and Sustainable energy as much as is possible. We should also keep our culture as much as possible. No point in blind imitations. What we need is some Discipline, starting with our govt. schools and road behavior. Alongside, Sc&Tech should be taught to young people in schools making it fun to learn Sc&Tech.

    The Bible says : the meek & the humble shall inherit the Earth. Also, in the Bible, we are asked to chose between God & Mamon (money). Money can be made, but in good trade & services only.
    The Indian flag has the Dharma Chakra, and the Indian motto is “Truth wins” – all taken from Buddhism. Hindu religion, sans the Dalit aspect & image worship, is akin to Buddhism, particularly in Raj Yoga. Hindu people in power kept to Hindu religion to keep the Caste System going, as Buddhism did not embrace the Caste System. It was not due to Buddhism being wrong – it was to keep servile labor going on in India. With Democracy in place in India, the caste system is dying out, is it not ? In Tamil Nadu, it is dying too, but very slowly compared to the rest of India.

    Those Lankans who prefer the west, ought to live in the west. But, change we must in Lanka, in our own style and way, in keeping with our culture. Isn’t the Mahinda Chinthanaya doing just that ?

    Dear Ben, do not heap every wrong done by others to Buddhists on Buddhism. Please first analyse what went wrong with those cultures & people that attacked Buddhists. That type ought to correct their ways first. Unlike in the early decades after Independence (1948), we are more educated on the facts now.

    Written with no offence to anyone.

  9. Dham Says:

    You call yourself Buddhist and aganist Nibbana. Are you Ben or Bean ?
    There is no point arguing with you because you keep telling illogic argument of how Buddhism wiped out from some countires.
    If Nibbana is not there Buddhism is already wiped out.
    Those Mulim worriors wiped out Buddhism with a lot of terror and effort and you want to do it here on this forum. LOL

  10. Ben_silva Says:

    Fran, I merely stated a fact, as I observed through various researc. I did not blame any one or give any solutions. Before getting upset, please check what I said and if I am wrong please say so. I merely said that every passive group has been robbed or some harm done to them. Th evidence is natives ib North and south America, Africa, Natives in Australia , Asia and so on. If I am wrong please say so. Some wiresmay have got ctrossed.

  11. Sunil Vijaya Says:

    Ben – The hat has fitted you well – I am sorry. I never insulted you specifically but stated what has been pointed in Dhamma. Buddhism is only for wise I repeat – this is Buddha’s word. How can that be insulting? And the Dhammapada statement too aims at wise people. Buddha directed this to Sanjeeva Belataputta as this sectarian knew that he was a fool compared with Buddha ‘ all fools will come to me and wise ones will go to Buddha’ and Buddha acknowledged it. Where as others like Mahaveera, Ajitha kesakalamba etc. thought they were wiser than Buddha. Mahaveera died vomitting blood! So just be careful when you criticise Buddhism, consequences will follow. Probably you a re mixed bag. You contradict your own statements. You like middle path, which is Noble Eight Fold Path, which advocates Samma Samdhi, which is targetting 4th Jhana and beyond with Vipassana. Buddy one thing I know and and have ‘understood’ is this precious Dhamma. Poojakavaroos(99% of Buddhsit monks) have lost the deal. Anyway have you checked with Aaranya Bhikkus in Sri Lanka, Thailand and Burma whether they have attained to Jhanas, entered the Stream and even attained to Nibbana beforre you claim that there is no one in this world with its 6 billion population, who has entered Nibbana?
    Personally I have met Bhikkus who are well on the road to Nibbana, as I am a contemplative myself. You may decline Nibbana as a fruitless excercise and head to hell or believe in nihilism – well its your choice. But just stop this nonsense of Development, getting rich and all this crap of blaming Buddhism for our poverty. Enlighten yourself through the wise words of Fran and Dham would have never compared you to Bean! (I couldn’t stop laughing!)

  12. Ben_silva Says:

    Sunil you have expressed your opinion, which is fine. as people are entitled to their opinion. I am stating a fact that Indians have dumped Buddhism for what ever reason and Buddhism has lost its place in India. Please accept the fact and comment. The point I want to establish is that even the source country India has dumped Buddhism, which is similar to Rome or Pope dumping Catholism.

  13. Fran Diaz Says:

    Dear Ben,
    Whichever way I slice your comments, I simply cannot accept your comment “India has dumped Buddhism” ! The word ‘dumped’ has to me connotations of rubbish being thrown away, something useless and smelly. No, how can that be the case when the the Indian Flag has the Dhamma Chakra symbol & the Indian motto says “Truth wins” – both aspects taken from Buddhism. Even the greatest Tamil philosopher took Buddhist teachings for guidance !

    If India has turned to Hinduism, it was to make war seem alright against Muslim hoards. In that case, the west has ‘dumped’ parts of Christ’s teachings (do not kill), to justify war against Muslim hoards too !

    There is a clear misunderstanding & misplacement here of Buddhism. Buddhism is for spiritual needs. Spiritual Needs are for Spiritual survival.

    Ben, you are addressing Material needs & Survival only. Material needs are for bodily survival. Science & Technology are useful for Material needs. As extreme Science & Technology is producing results inimical to life on Earth (extreme sciences of nuclear & oil energies producing negative results through deadly atomic pollution, & through oil, Climate Change and further air pollution,), we should stick with Intermediate Science & Technology which does not harm life and can be controlled by scientists.

    Furthermore, Nirvana is a feeling and cannot be proved in a lab, as much as Heaven cannot be proved by anyone in a lab. Buddha said :”Truth is WITHIN YOU”, and Jesus said : “the Kingdom of Heaven is WITHIN YOU”. What a coincidence ! It’s the same stuff, isn’t it, spiritually speaking ? !

  14. Ben_silva Says:

    Let me respond to Fran first and then to Sunil. By dumping, I meant that most Indians are not following Buddhism any more, and probably following Hinduism or the Muslim faith for what ever reason and that India is officially a secular state and not a Buddhist state.I agree with most ideas s of Fran, such as living in harmony with nature. I strongly support living in harmony with nature. It is growing in popularity now. However we can learn from history. Even Prof. Hawkings have expressed the opinion that more intelligent foreigners could rob your assets. My opinion was similar and if we do enough research, we can confirm it. Our experience in Lanka is the same. Fran has made very useful contributions and I have not hurled any abuse at Fran. If I have done so accidentally, then my apologies.
    Now let me respond to Sunil.
    Sunil says ‘just stop this nonsense of Development, getting rich’ Does he want the Sinhalese to be the poorest of the poor ? Religion is a virus that invades a host, the human mind, and as with any virus, it takes over the host and uses that host for the sordid purposes of reproduction of the virus itself and the infection of other hosts. ref;
    As Sunil has not responded, he does not challenge that Indians have dumped Buddhism, in the same manner as pope dumping Catholism. I merely pointed out that in comparison to 1 Indian seeking Nirvana, millions of Indians have dumped the Buddhist concept of Nirvana. .
    When I read that Sunil is contemplating Nirvana, I burst out laughing as it is a case of a fool trying to reach fool’s paradise. The hat fit Sunil well and it suits him, along with the compliments. Fools cannot think and they are good at hurling insults.. As for Dham, it is a pity that he does not even have a single brain cell, as if he had he would be at least have Mr Beans ability.
    This is my final comment as it is a waste of time trying to change the mind of a person affected by the religion mind virus. Sunils conduct is similar to that of a Taliban and I never wanted to insult him. Please note that I am merely returning the compliments back to Sunil.

  15. Fran Diaz Says:

    Dear Ben :

    You have never ‘hurled any abuse’ at me in any way personally, but I so dislike the word ‘dumping’ Buddhism. That is why I protested. It is like heaping insults on an injured nation ! However, I understand you want to awaken the sleeping nation, and therefore justifies your comments. In order to avoid hurting, I would have used words like ‘moved away from Buddhism to Hinduism’ …… I would like to thank both Sunil & Ben for this dialogue with its WAKE UP call !

    Re your statement : “Even Prof. Hawkings have expressed the opinion that more intelligent foreigners could rob your assets”, not only Prof Hawkins, but we humble citizens would say the same thing. This is the reason why we suggested earlier that govt. land be only LEASED out to foreigners. Land should be owned only by indigenous people. Laws must be put in place to safeguard govt. land as these areas and the sea around Lanka are the property of the People of Lanka, and GoSL is the Guardian/Custodian of these resources. Also, Labor laws akin to present day Germany may be very beneficial.
    And we hope that no illegal migrant is ever allowed to settle in Lanka.

  16. Sunil Vijaya Says:

    Ben – your counter attacks are not upto scratch. You need more tuning. I know you have been hurt and licking your wounds. You did land yourself in this position – no one did, at least not me. If you partcipated in a decent dialogue about the Sutra I wrote instead of hijaking the topic, it would have served some purpose or at least kept away from commenting. Now you are sinking in quick sand.

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