International Ahmadiyya Convention.
Posted on September 7th, 2013
By A. Abdul Aziz, Press Secretary, Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at ƒ¢¢”š¬- Sri Lanka.
The Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at held its three-day International Annual Convention recently at Hadeeqa-tul-Mahdi in Alton, Hampshire, U.K. Dignitaries from all over the world representing 89 countries attended. The Convention commenced with Friday Prayers led by His Holiness Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, the World Leader of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. The three-day international event has attracted global interest with around 30,000 delegates attending from dozens of countries.
During a faith inspiring address on the second day of the Convention, the World Head of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad announced that more than 540,000 people had joined the Community during the past year. His Holiness announced the figure whilst giving a detailed report of the global activities of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at.
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad also informed that the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at had now been established in 204 countries of the world. During the past year the Jama’at had spread to two new countries ƒ¢¢”š¬- Costa Rica and Montenegro.
It was further announced that during the past year the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at had built or acquired 394 new Mosques. These included new Mosques in Canada, Germany and Spain which had been personally inaugurated by Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at had also acquired 121 new Mission Houses or Centers.
As a means to serve Islam, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at had now translated the Holy Quran into 71 different languages, whilst numerous other books had been published or translated in an effort to further the cause of true and peaceful Islam, Ahmadiyya Khalifa informed.
As a means to serve humanity, the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at had further increased the scope of its charitable projects in various parts of the world. In particular, His Holiness mentioned the ƒ¢¢”š¬’Water for Life’ project through which clean, running water was being provided to thousands of deprived people in remote parts of Africa. His Holiness said that such projects were of the utmost importance as they were a means of alleviating the suffering of those most in need.
Earlier in the day, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad directly addressed members of Lajna Imaillah (Ladies Auxiliary Organization). His Holiness said that people from all walks of life, of all religions and from all parts of the world had come to accept the Promised Messiah, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian. In this way the Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at was uniting mankind in peace and harmony.
His Holiness counselled that justice and equality at all levels were of the utmost importance. He said peace in society began with peace within the domestic environment.
Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad said:
ƒ¢¢”š¬…”It is my observation that the fundamental causes for marriage breakdowns are egotism and selfishness. The truth is that if a husband and his wife treat each other with fairness and equality then there will never be any disputes. Certainly, the peace and beauty of any society is dependent upon justice and honesty at all levels.ƒ¢¢”š¬‚
This three-day Convention included a world-wide Initiation (Bai’at) Ceremony that is held every year at the time of Annual Convention in which large numbers of people from different countries gather at some places in their respective countries and then via satellite take an oath of allegiance at the hand of the Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmadƒ”š‚ This historical ceremony was held on Sunday the 1st September 2013 (last day of the Convention) at 5.30 P.M. local time. Ahmadi Muslims across the country assembled in their mosques situated at Colombo, Negombo, Pasyala and Polonnaruawa and taking part in this Initiation Ceremony via MTA (Muslim Television Ahmadiyya) ƒ¢¢”š¬- Community’s FREE satellite TV.ƒ”š‚ During the event, Ahmadiyya Head informed that 540782 people joined the Community in the past one year.ƒ”š‚ ƒ”š‚ ƒ”š‚ The video also shows the program held in an Ahmadiyya Mosque at Negombo ƒ¢¢”š¬- connecting the ceremony held in U.K. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPlSgKj4pv4&feature=youtu.be
Bai’at or Bay’ah is an Islamic practice which is literally translated with the meaning to sell. In a religious context it means oath of allegiance, whereby an individual or group declares itself in allegiance to a particular leader, cause or community. In an Islamic religious sense, this oath is the standard procedure of pledging allegiance to an Imam, a spiritual leader, or to sell oneself in exchange of the spiritual guidance given by an Imam or spiritual leader. A large Bai’at ceremony of initiation for entering the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community is held every year during the annual gathering of the community in the United Kingdom. This ceremony is called the International Bay’ah. The ceremony is led by the head of the community, the Khalifatul Masih, at whose hand the new converts take the oath of initiation.
The concept of bai’at is considered very important to Ahmadi Muslims. Its Founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, after claiming to be divinely appointed as the Promised Messiah and Mahdi took the first bai’at in 1889 at Ludhiana, Punjab, India. ƒ”š‚ After this, many of his converts travelled long distances to Qadian to be initiated in the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. The tradition was carried on during the Khalifatul Masih or Ahmadiyya Caliphate.
The tradition was originally started by Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and continued by the 4 Caliphs after him.
International Bai’at (oath of allegiance)
In 1993, Mirza Tahir Ahmad, the fourth Khalifa of Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’atƒ”š‚ internationalized the Bay’ah through MTA ƒ¢¢”š¬- Muslim Television Ahmadiyya International (A 24 FREE satellite TV channel) ƒ”š‚ by which people from all over the world are now able to partake in this pledge which is simultaneously translated into 12 different languages. This international oath of allegiance takes place every year at the annual gatherings in UK, except for one year (2001) when it took place in Germany.
Distinctive features
Since the first International Bai’at, some acts have become part of the tradition during the ceremony. Foremost, the Caliph wears a green coat of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (Promised Messiah and Mahdi) at the ceremony.
The members of the community form five or seven lines in front of the Khalifa at the ceremony to represent the five/seven continents of the world. Officials of the community organisation and other people who have worked for the community or are otherwise selected for this ceremony are present in these lines. The lines proceed to some extent in an orderly manner after which other members are present. Members of the community all over the world join the ceremony live through TV coverage by the community’s own satellite channel MTA. The members and those who want to become members place their hands on the back of the person in their front, as is known from the tradition of the early Muslims at the time of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and so form chains of physical contact with the Khalifa. This physical contact is seen necessary only for those present at the ceremony.
The oath of allegiance or Bai’at is taken by the Khalifa in the following way: first he reads a sentence or a part of a sentence from the oath in English or in Urdu language, which the members of the community repeat after him. Then the same sentence or part of the sentence is repeated by translators in many languages of the world simultaneously and repeated by the members of the community.
After having gone through the whole text of the oath of allegiance in this manner, the Khalifa leads the members in silent prayers.
At the end the congregation, which includes all members around the world prostrate themselves. This prostration is not directed in any particular direction, but it is led by the Khalifa, but in whichever direction they find suitable. The tradition of this prostration goes back to Mirza Tahir Ahmad (Fourth Khalifa of Ahmadiyya Community), who started it as an act of gratitude to Allah, the Almighty.
In his concluding address on the last day of the Convention, His Holiness said that Ahmadiyya Jama’at is spreading the true teachings of Islam in the world.ƒ”š‚ And though there are many Muslim groups who claim to be true Muslims but practically they are not following the teachings of Islam.
He said Ahmadiyya Jama’at is facing many problems in Pakistan and other countries but yet progressing and increasing in numbers day by day by the help of Almighty Allah.
The convention proceedings were being broadcast live from Hadeeqatul Mahdi (Alton, UK) via the worldwide Muslim TV Ahmadiyya International (MTA) and were available in many languages.
The highlights of the Convention ƒ¢¢”š¬- the video link of which is:-
September 7th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
Bravo, Mr. Defence Secretary …. Don’t budge ONE INCH from the TRUTH of what you said!
INTOLERANT Religious ideologues of various hues (Islamic Fundamentalists and Born-Again Evangelical Christians among them), are seeking today to brainwash and convert people to their faiths, targeting Buddhist and Hindu countries, pitting their converts against people of other faiths, destabilizing and undermining national governments in the process, in a vast INTERNATIONAL CONSPIRACY of Rich Muslim, and Neocolonialist Western, Nations.
Keep them, their money, and their activists … religious and non-religious …. out of Sri Lanka by Whatever Means Necessary!
Sri Lanka for Sri Lankans ONLY …. not for Foreigners to practice their WATUSI dances …. meddling where they don’t belong …. to transform and remake our moderate Sri Lankan society in their own image of vicious fanatical discriminatory beliefs.
………………………..
Gotabhaya reiterates concern over extremism
By Shamindra Ferdinandoa
Island.lk
September 6, 2013
Defence Secretary Gotabhaya Rajapaksa yesterday reiterated that extremism posed a severe threat not only to post-war Sri Lanka but many countries in the region as well as the industrialised world.
The war veteran was responding to a statement issued by Justice Minister Hakeem, who is also the SLMC leader, in the wake of Rajapaksa’s address to the Defence Seminar in Colombo early this week. Minister Hakeem was obviously blind to the ground situation, he said, adding that the world was in turmoil today partly due to extremism.
The Defence Secretary said: “We are working closely with many countries to tackle extremist acts. In fact, it is an ongoing process involving intelligence services and other relevant agencies. Due to vigilance on the part of those fighting extremism and terrorism we were able to thwart plans to cause mayhem.”
The Defence Secretary said Minister Hakeem shouldn’t have dragged Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia into the debate as he never mentioned those countries. “The SLMC failed to comprehend what I have said”, he said.
Extremism fueled by a few threatened all countries including the Muslim world, Rajapaksa said. “Minister Hakeem’s reference to Muslim countries backing Sri Lanka at the United Nations Human Rights Council is irrelevant. At the recent Defence seminar, I discussed the threat posed by Muslim extremists as well as Sinhala hardliners.
There is absolutely no suggestion that Muslim countries are in anyway responsible for the situation. Regrettably Minister Hakeem had misinterpreted facts.”
The Defence Secretary said that the government had cooperated with many governments in the region as well as the US during Ranil Wickremesinghe’s tenure as the Premier. “Sri Lanka handed over an extremist wanted by the US intelligence during the UNP-led administration in which Minister Hakeem was a senior member. The present administration too acted on information furnished by foreign intelligence services to intercept wanted extremists.”
Responding to a query by The Island, Defence Secretary Rajapaksa said that Minister Hakeem had misconstrued his assertion that there were some foreign groups bent on encouraging misguided local Muslims to identify themselves more with the extremist global Muslim community, thereby reducing the community’s integration with the rest of the population.
The Defence Secretary said: “It is a known fact that Muslim fundamentalism is spreading all over the world and in this region. This is a situation that our law enforcement agencies and security forces are concerned about, particularly as there have been instances where extremist elements have been in transit in Sri Lanka prior to arrest and handing over to appropriate authorities. The possibility that such extremist elements may try to promote Muslim extremism in Sri Lanka is a cause for concern.”
September 7th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
The Defence Secretary is RIGHT ON TARGET when he warns of growing Muslim extremism in Sri Lanka.
Instead of PROTESTING their DEEP DISTURBANCE at his comment, the SLMC and the ACMC Muslim Parties should HEED the ADVICE and WARNING of Gotabaya Rajapakse, and take IMMEDIATE ACTION to PREVENT the growth of extremism in their community and IMPROVE ITS INTEGRATION into the Greater Sri Lankan society.
It is the ISOLATION and BRAINWASHING of Tamils in the Eelamist controlled territories over 30 years that FED & SUSTAINED the Eelam Insurgency, which destroyed and impoverished the Tamil Community of Sri Lanka. The Muslims should have pity for their community and learn from that tragic lesson.
They should bind themselves to a single identity as Sri Lankan citizens following a MODERATE brand of Islam that has held sway in Sri Lanka for centuries and allowed them to remain a model minority. They should REJECT ALL Militant and Intolerant forms of Islam …. imported to Sri Lanka from Wahhabi dominated Muslim states … that will surely lead only to the destruction and impoverishment of their community.
In the words of President Mahinda Rajapaksa, there are only TWO TYPES of People in Sri Lanka that we recognize: Those who LOVE Sri Lanka and those who DON’T.
Loving Sri Lanka is the same as establishing common cause with ALL Sri Lankan CITIZENS irrespective of community, and rejecting allegiances to Foreign Ethnic and Religious Communities, and to Intolerant Dogmas alien to Sri lankan society, and holding supreme their identity as Sri Lankan citizens.
Therefore, we say to our dear Fellow Muslim Sri Lankans, LOVE Sri Lanka and Sri Lanka ALONE, EMBRACE without Reservation ALL of its People irrespective of community as your very own, and REJECT Intolerant Dogmas imported from abroad, no matter how alluring their siren song woos your ears!
………………………..
Muslim allies of Sri Lankan government react to Defense Secretary’s comments on Muslim extremism
ColomboPage News Desk, Sri Lanka.
Sept 06, Colombo: A comment made by the Sri Lanka’s Defense Secretary Gotabhaya Rajapakse attributing the rising religious tensions in the country to the Muslim extremism has disturbed the Muslim allies of the government.
Both Rauf Hakeem Sri Lanka’s Justice Minister and the leader of the main Muslim party, Sri Lanka Muslim Congress (SLMC) and the leader of the All Ceylon Muslim Congress (ACMC), Minister of Industry and Commerce Rishad Bathiyutheen have deplored the Defense Secretary’s statement alleging Muslim extremism in the country.
Hakeem criticized the Defense Secretary’s comments saying that he was disturbed by the warning that extremist elements may try to promote Muslim extremism in Sri Lanka.
“We are extremely disturbed by the specific reference to the Muslim community of Sri Lanka as possible breeding grounds of extremism within the country,” AFP quoted Hakeem as saying in a statement.
“I would like to publicly contradict the assertion of the secretary of defense,” he said.
Delivering the keynote address at the just concluded Defense Seminar 2013, Rajapaksa, who is also President Mahinda Rajapaksa’s younger brother, said that there are some foreign groups that wish to encourage Sri Lankan Muslims to identify themselves more with the global Muslim community, reducing their integration with the rest of the population.
“It is a known fact that Muslim Fundamentalism is spreading all over the world and in this region,” Defense Secretary said adding that Sri Lanka’s law enforcement agencies and security forces are concerned about the situation.
He said there have been instances where extremist elements were found in transit in Sri Lanka and were arrested and handed over to appropriate authorities.
“The possibility that such extremist elements may try to promote Muslim extremism in Sri Lanka is a cause for concern,” Rajapaksa explained during his speech.
Hakeem warned him not to interfere with religion and culture and leave it in the hands of the respective people “as in the case of all enlightened democracies.”
Meanwhile, Bathiyutheen deploring the Defense Secretary’s statement said that there has not been a single incident where a Muslim had been identified or arrested for having involved in extremist activities.
“Muslims all over the country deplore the said statement and are highly perturbed particularly at a time when there is sudden eruption of hatred directed at Muslims by certain interest elements which we believe needs to be investigated to get to its root,” Bathiyutheen said in a statement released to local media.
He said the Muslims in the country have tolerated the provocative attacks by extremists on their places of worship and of their faith itself as well as their practices as Muslims for more than one year now.
“However, a tendency prevails today to depict a picture portraying the Muslim community as a whole as the culprit when a crime is committed by an individual Muslim while offenders belonging to other communities are treated as individual offenders,” he said in the statement.
He said his party as a partner in the government has stood with it in times of need.
“Therefore it is in the same spirit as well as in the best interest of the community that we represent that we call upon the Defense secretary to clarify this statement so as to dispel any mistrust that the particular statement has created,” he said.
Sri Lanka’s Muslim community and places of their worship and businesses have increasingly come under attack by Buddhist extremist groups such as Bodu Bala Sena (BBS) and Ravana Balaya. The BBS successfully campaigned against the Halal certification of foods in the country.
September 7th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
Bravo, Mr. President … you say it like it is, but pray are you not playing into hands by enabling the Tiger Nominated Agents of the TNA to assume control of the Northern and Eastern Provincil Councils in the upcoming Provincial Councils Elections? How do you propose to contain their TREASONOUS activities then?
“Arab Spring” was a Western inspired move to undermine and destabilize every stable country in the Moslem world. But yet, the “Human Rights” and “Democracy” propaganda used for destabilization misfired BIGTIME … with every country in which the Arab Spring took hold moving away from increased democracy to Islamic fundamentalism.
Along the way, except for oil-rich Saudi Arabia and Qatar … fearful of their monarchies being overturned …. who have sought refuge in the embrace of the Western Neocolonialists they had previously denigrated as Evil Incarnate, the people of the Arab Spring nations have turned away from those who staged the puppet show.
Margaret Warner of the respected PBSNewshour show reported yesterday from Cairo, Egypt that the people of Egypt OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE the looming military attack on Syria …. simply because they don’t TRUST THE MOTIVES of the Western countries eagerly jockeying into position to attack Syria. This view, Margret said, is UNIVERSAL among the Moslem and Christian peoples of the Middle East, including the Christians of Syria.
And so, ONCE AGAIN, the best laid plans of the master manipulators of Western Neocolonialism … has gone astray … BIG TIME, and their dynamite has blown up in their own hands!
………………….
Sri Lankan President warns of foreign attempts to destabilize the country
ColomboPage News Desk, Sri Lanka.
Sept 07, Kandy: Sri Lanka’s President Mahinda Rajapaksa today warned that foreign forces are plotting various ways to destabilize the country and urged the ethnic Tamil and Muslim communities not to be misled by false propaganda campaigns that attempt to create rifts among the communities.
Speaking at an election rally held at the Edward Sports Grounds in Matale to support the ruling United People’s Freedom Alliance (UPFA) at the upcoming Central Provincial Council elections, the President said four years after the victory over the Tamil Tiger terrorism, external forces are attempting to create a situation similar to the “Arab Spring” in the Middle East to change the regime.
The President explained that uprisings in Libya and Egypt created by street protests and by electronic and social media resulted in overthrowing the regimes but those countries are still in chaos and plagued with problems.
Anti-national groups, on the order of foreign forces are making similar attempts in Sri Lanka by creating racial and religious tension between the ethnic communities, the President pointed out.
He asked the people to be cautious and not to be misled by the propaganda against the country, and act intelligently to save the freedom the country earned after defeating the terrorism.
“We cannot develop a country without the cooperation of all communities, all the religions,” the President said.
He said our responsibility is to build a country for the child to be born tomorrow and not just for the present.
Ministers Nimal Siripala de Silva, W.D.J. Seneviratne, Mahinda Yapa Abeywardena, Pavithra Wanniarachchi, Wimal Weerawansa, Rohitha Abeygunawardena, Vijith Vijithamuni de Soysa, Rohana Kumara Dissanayake, Nandimithra Ekanayake and several parliamentarians participated in today’s rally.
September 7th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
Egypt’s prosecutor begins probe into political activists: source
September 6, 2013
CAIRO (Reuters) – Egypt’s public prosecutor is looking into legal complaints against a group of prominent democracy and rights activists, a judicial source at the prosecutor’s office said on Saturday, adding to fears of a widening crackdown on dissent.
Confirming a story on the Web site of state newspaper Al-Ahram on Saturday, the source said the prosecutor received complaints from private citizens against 35 political figures, many of them important figures in the 2011 uprising against ousted Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.
They include activist Ahmed Maher, blogger Ahmed Douma and liberal politician Amr Hamzawi, the source said.
The complaints accuse the activists of accepting money from the United States and other countries, and say that diplomatic cables leaked by WikiLeaks support their claims, the source said.
Hamzawi denied on Twitter the allegations in Al-Ahram. “Claims that I got foreign money are completely untrue, the campaign of fabrication and distortion must immediately stop,” he said.
It was not clear which WikiLeaks cables the complaints referred to, but some cables talk about the then-U.S. ambassador meeting or having dinner with activists in 2007 and 2008.
The prosecutor’s office was not available to confirm the report or comment.
Prosecutions based on complaints brought by private individuals have long been seen as a tool of political intimidation in Egypt, often instigated by government supporters. Many were brought against opponents of Islamist president Mohamed Mursi before he was deposed on July 3.
The security forces have made no secret of launching a ferocious crackdown on Mursi’s Muslim Brotherhood, arresting its top leaders on charges of inciting political violence as well as around 2,000 other Islamists.
Many activists fear the army could turn its sights on other groups who worked for Mubarak’s overthrow in 2011 hoping to establish an open civilian democracy in Egypt.
“These are fake accusations,” rights lawyer Gamal Eid told Reuters. “(The complaint) is from people who know that it is false but who try to silence activists’ demands for the realisation of the demands of the revolution.”
Separately, a leftist lawyer accused of belonging to a secret organisation and spreading lies about the military appeared before military prosecutors in Suez, but was later released, judicial sources said.
Haitham Mohamedeen, a rights activist who belongs to the Revolutionary Socialist movement, a group critical of the army, was arrested in Suez on Thursday.
The accusations against him included belonging to a secret organisation with the aim of attacking state institutions and the military, a judicial source at the military prosecutor’s office in Suez said.
It was not clear whether the case against him had been dropped.
In another case, Egyptian journalist Ahmed Abu Deraa remained in detention after his arrest in North Sinai on Wednesday.
The military prosecutor accused him of spreading lies and giving military information to secret organisations, a source at the prosecutor’s office said.
“The detention of Ahmed Abu Deraa harks back to the Mubarak era, when journalists faced formidable obstacles reporting on military activity in the Sinai peninsula,” said Robert Mahoney, deputy director of the Committee to Protect Journalists.
(Reporting by Shadia Nasralla, additional reporting by Tom Perry; Editing by Kevin Liffey and Sonya Hepinstall)
September 7th, 2013 at 5:58 pm
Dear Readers, the subject matter posted related to a Peaceful Community in Islam. Comments are irrelevant.
September 7th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
The Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama’at (community) in Islam was founded in 1889 by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (peace be upon him) in a small town called Qadian in the Punjab region of India. Under Divine guidance Hazrat Ahmad claimed to be the Promised Messiah as awaited by all major religions. Since Hazrat Ahmad’s passing in 1908 the Community has been led by virtue of the Institution of Khalifat – ‘Spiritual Succession’. The Ahmadiyya Muslim Commnuity is currently led by the Fifth Khalifa of its Founder, Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad who resides in South West London. Ahmadiyyat stands for the brotherhood of mankind and tries to establish peace on earth through love, persuasion and tolerance. It is a spiritual organization and has no political agenda.
September 8th, 2013 at 3:41 am
Ahamadiya, mohamadiya they all same. The ultimate goal is to destroy all the non-believers (like the terror manual says) and islamise the country.That’s what this menace done to all the countries they went into in the world.
THAT’S WHAT THEY DOING IN SRI LANKA. BREED, BREED AND TAKE OVER. We don’t want to read all this bs about
how peaceful you are. We simply don’t want to know. If it is too good practice it yourself and go to your hell. We are
not going to change our ways. How good you and your religion can be seen on TV across the world in
Syria, pakesthan, afganisthan, iraq, saudi etc. etc. Still not a single democracy on this planet.
So practice it yourself. Don’t try to force it down other people’s throats.
Don’t mulitply. Don’t put up eye sore mosques in every street corner. Those tricks worked pre-internet,
pre-TV days to steal countries. It won’t work any more.
We will not let our country go down the path old afganisthan, malaysia, indonesia, iran, maldives, pakesthan went.
DO NOT MULTIPLY LIKE XXXX. If you don’t like our country, you can leave any time. Doors open all the time.
No body going to stop you.
Nobody going to miss you.
Nobody going to shed a tear for you.
Just look at the way this menace dress is enough to intimidate.
Goni billa dress for menacing women (black of course).
Sarong and skull hat for the menace.
Bloody awful. What an eyesore.
Menace to our country. Menace to the planet.
September 8th, 2013 at 5:27 am
“Dear Readers, the subject matter posted related to a Peaceful Community in Islam. Comments are irrelevant.”
In this case I AGREE with Nesta.
He is right. Ahmadiyya Muslims are the ONLY peaceful Muslims.
But the Islamic terrorism threat is REAL. As a small minority Ahmadiyya Muslims cannot control the Muslims.
September 8th, 2013 at 5:28 am
The BREEDING menace of Muslims MUST be stopped one way or the other.